mf.i DS Data – Communications

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This page has comms usually intended for specific people. Messages are subject to removal after a while (but they're still on the page's History tab).

Times are U.S. EST (my time zone).

DS Data near release as of 2202-02-18


Hi, MisterCrowbar and Frivolous_chicken,

Thanks so much for taking your time to look at my site!

I made an executive decision about how "dense" my site is. See the new Disclaimer at the top of the DS Data homepage, including the Expander there.

I hope you and others can empathize with how my goal is to research DS, not make some sort of sophisticated site. Such a site which would be much larger and take months more. I'm just in this for the data! As I see it, the information – the goal – is presented as succinctly as it could be. Saying it less succinctly would basically require making all the text even longer and/or saying the same thing multiple times.

Yes, folks have to wade through it. But the new thing I bring – the research – is there. And that's the main thing. What can I say, it's much like a typical science paper. Methods and all. (If you don't say exactly how it was done, others will get different results because they'll do it differently. And how can they know if I did something a particular way that led to my results, or even if I did something wrong, unless I say what I did?)

I hope you don't think I'm ignoring you. I heard both of you loudly say it's too dense and not user friendly. For this I thank you. I thank you for your honest opinions. But what can I say... would you rather I not do it at all? If I'm going to do research on this or any other game (check it out), this is what it'll look like. My goal is to find and present new information in as succinct a way as I can – not to spend months more making a "pretty" website. I simply don't want to volunteer my time to do that. It takes too much time away from my gaming. 😆 So, imagine that ... readers will have to work (focus) to understand the info. C'est la vie.

Past the fact that I'm not going to rewrite the nature of the whole site,

Do either of you have any more suggestions? Including things you might have asked about before, but I missed? MisterCrowbar, I made a list of things you asked for that I did, at the bottom of this Comms page.

To announce DS Data, I'll make a post on the DS /sr. Just before that, I'll edit the links in my navbar (upper left) to put DS Data at the top (instead of hidden under Old Changes).

Also I'm going to remove the link to this Comms page. The page will remain; it just won't be linked to anywhere. To a degree, is a record of all the work done on games, ya know?

Do either of you mind how much I mention you on the DS Data pages, or where I acknowledge you at the top of DS Data home page? Maybe you don't want to be associated with my site. 😱 You can use the Search box to find pages that cite you, and then use your browser's Find to see mentions (there could be more than one on a page). Let me know if you want me to remove that main acknowledgement, or other ones.

I'll probably tweak the site for a few days or a week before announcing it. It's kind of a fraught thing. Will players hate it despite all the work done, because I don't spoon feed? Will it mostly be ignored? We'll see.


See my replies to the 2/22/22 DM...

f_c 2022-03-09

reddit PM: another hologram bb likes is the heartman one where he's dead and his aed revives him

f_c 2022-02-27

from a reddit PM

I know BB gives likes when you drive fast, I can't remember if she gives likes for the other times she laughs, which included riding zipline, tripping, but catching yourself, and some structure holograms, which include neandroid, goose, delivery bot, raccoon. Kojima maybe. There might be a couple others.

f_c 2022-02-22

Copied from a reddit PM – Thanks! Great stuff. My resulting edits in italics... Hit Expand to see --->

cbiotes - to test regen, I'd do one of the permanent trees. max is 999, cbiotes-d I never maxed out, but I'm guessing 999, I got them up to like 200 if I remember correctly, you get 3-4 per delivery, can't remember.

Yes, this section was kind of an afterthought. I made it more comprehensive. Here's all the changes I did.

tips you might not have, I'm skimming, looks like you're on pc, but in ps you can hold square and scroll down inventory list to select everything you scroll past. also, when you get rewards for premiums deliveries, you can back out of menu by pressing circle and the item just gets put into private locker

You can do that on PC too, but you're right – I hadn't emphasized it enough. So I made a new little section for it. I also added a new sentence to end of the section right above.

bb gives 5 likes, i think, if you sing to her in the hottub, you can go through the song once, every verse gets a like or two and then she stops liking. similar to the harmonica, but fewer likes. at least one of the signs will get likes from bb too

Thanks for these tips and the other ones you DM'ed later (above). I rewrote this section to try to cover them. BB thanks you too, laugh.
Too bad we can't figure out what governs when you can do these things again (what's the cooldown time). A lot of things in the game are kind of hard to figure out that way, like cryptobiote hives, chiral caches, lost cargo drops (including in Mule camp postboxes), when Share Lockers are updated, etc.

hahaha, i started using the carrier as a pack filler for pizzas because you almost always, if not always, get one for each delivery, and it turned out they were great for that purpose.

Huh I had forgotten that. Serendipitous!

there are a bunch of crystal clusters that are permanent and respawn very slowly. They added more spots for DC. if you want, I can list you the ones I can think of. Can get upwards of 600 crystals. if you hit them all while doing the story, when you come back in chapter 15, they're all filled again.

Thanks for saying this... as you know, as a result I did a major effort toward these small but important little gifts scattered around:
Doing all this cache and statistics work added 2 or 3 weeks to my time spent on the site.

auto paver, I sort of messed around with degradation and arrived at about loss of 100 health per minute. not sure if it's for all structures and I'm guessing it varies depending on timefall. also, you cannot add material until health drops to 89%

Added Autopaver Decay

I had a vehicle at 9% and went to the elder's when it was timefall and sat there and waited for an hour hoping to destroy the truck to get a nice vid cap of the janitor BTs taking the truck away, but it never got any lower in that time. Was still 9% an hour later

Thanks for that confirmation. I covered this in Timefall: Vehicles.

knot material tip - store any collected mats in private locker so it doesn't go toward cap. also, claim some and store in private locker too.

I think veteran players have mostly figured this out. I emphasized it a little more by making a new header called How_I_Manage_Material_Banks for some text I'd written. It's true that this info is sort of spread out diffusely in what I wrote. But I think serious players realize they need to hoard like this, so that overage isn't lost.

stamina - hot springs completely restore stamina, and 3 get stamina to 125%. Photographer, Heartman's and either doctor or robot

Good tip. I wrote up a new section, Hot_Springs_and_Stamina, verified that it's the Roboticist (not Doctor). Would you believe I never once visited Roboticist's hot spring until then; didn't even know it existed?
I also tried to research whether hot springs also remove fatigue. But after 30 minutes of tiring Sam out running against a wall with a full load (fatigue was ~40%), the game crashed, dammit. Maybe I'll test it later; it would be good to know. For now, I just added it to Things I Might Get To.

surprising order time doesn't advance during cliff stuff

I'm not. It probably uses it for timed deliveries and timefall-wear on structures... to me it wouldn't make sense to go to an "alternate reality" and have time advance in the "real" game world. But of course it's true that they could've played it either way; it's just a game.
On the other hand, I think it's kind of odd that distance increments when you're in Cliff's wars, but not time... maybe that was for boot wear? or the unscored portion of your delivery distance?? who knows.

squeezing a bit more into a full truck and pack, you can also get all 4 suit pieces in too.

I thought I had mentioned that, but I can't find it now, laugh. OMG I ramble all over the place so much, it's hard to find some of these things. But that's the nature of trying to cover everything... but also trying not to say the same thing over and over again multiple times. Anyway, I stuck the new little italicized paragraph into Sam's Shotgun Space.

sandal wood or whatever the temp boot is called is capped at 99 in inventory

I thought of sandalweed several times during my work, but never got around to it. Mostly because I already had so damn much on boots (probably far more than most players care about). Plus it's easy to have boots all the time. But still, it would be a good curiousity to research. There are also a number of other questions related to barefoot, and damage / stam / fatigue in that state (which I'm sure you know far better than I). Plus things like the fact that there's a period during which boots have worn out (with a glaring message) but they aren't actually gone yet (they're on your feet as "destroyed)... but eventually they will actually disappear. What's up with all that? Do you actually still have some level of boot coverage when it's destroyed but not yet gone? I don't know; haven't tested it.
Hey thanks for all your insights and questions! You really helped fill some important gaps.

Mike 2022-01-23

Welcome! Hope you don't mind if I call you FC here. Or, want us to use some other name?

Today I'm working on What Does the HG in "HG Custom" Mean?

Mister Crowbar

Thanks for all your help! As you can see, I really need it, laugh. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees.

Mike 2022-01-24

Thanks for the conversation! Hey listen, I put this note into HD Materials:

I haven't played at Very Hard difficulty (yet), but MisterCrowbar tells me that Mules drop a 200 hg Small of materials at Very Hard. That's for all materials – it's 200 hgs, whether Chemicals or Special Alloys.

Did I get it right? Was that only in DC? Also you'll see that I put in a lot of collapsibles on that page.

Mike 2022-01-07

I think some people would like that Boot info, but also a way to present more basic info like you say. Take a look. What do you think? I may decide to half-hide a lot of the more technical or boring details using collapsible elements like this... I started using them quite a bit in approx. December, but not much before that.

Other things I've worked on since 12/19:

  • New Stamina and Fatigue page. This is a difficult topic to explore deeply (lots of things interact), so it's more of a highlights page. But I also nailed down some things I've always been curious about.
  • Re-arranged the home page topics some, including de-emphasizing Time & Distance. Also, finished off that "Pending" section and removed it, but now "Things I might get to" is much longer. C'est la vie, sigh.
  • Added Strategies_for_Harvesting_Chiralium. This is part of work I will be laying in, now that I know how chiralium increases the baseline and max capacity.
    • Added Loads#Increased_Capacity_due_to_Chiral_Crystals. Also part of this work. This section isn't finished yet, and I still need to rip out a lot of old verbiage about BMC and re-arrange all the stuff that touches on it (in Loads, Speed, and Boots IIRC).
  • Added How_Recycling_Works. Interesting stuff... I never played with that before. Also see this related reddit.
  • Made Miscellaneous, Supporting, and Goofy Info. This is part of something you saw earlier that I re-arranged. The Cyrptobiote info is mostly new to me (i.e., much of that research recently done).

As you can see, I've put some of your ideas on my To Do list at bottom of DS homepage. I'm still waiting until I get the BMC junk into better shape before I invite frivolous_chicken.

Crowbar 2022-01-06

Looking at the "Simplified Comparison Table" in Boot Durability, I think it could be simplified a loooot more. Or at least put a simpler table that has only the cumulative up column. I think that's what most people will care about. It might also help to set Bridges Boots Lvl 1 as the 1.000 (or maybe make this base 100 so you're not working with decimals?) and the "going up" and "going down" bit is confusing -- I know it's explained below but it really shouldn't have to be.

Crowbar 2021-12-28

Happy almost new year!

Got some intel from u/frivolous_chicken about which MULE camps turn to terrorists in episodes 10 and 12 during the return to Capital Knot City. There's probably a place for this somewhere on the wiki?

Just did another trip back east and stopped at all the MULE camps and let them scan me. Based on whether Sam's body (as it does with terrorists) triggered an alarm, the MULE camps that become terrorist in central on the trip back east are Timefall Farm and the one in between Craftsman/Engineer/Elder. In the east region, the one near Ludens is also a terrorist. I didn't bother going up the hill to the one near Distro West.

Crowbar 2021-12-19

I'll take a look at the cargo page. I'm Canadian, eh. I'll try to keep in mind American spellings from now on. And I will definitely return a cross link to your wiki when you go live with it :)

later: I think that table might do better with some images of the symbols because it's kinda going right over my head. :x I don't see anything immediately egregious about it but I also never put that much stock into analysing symbols in game.

Mike 2021-12-19 noon

Crowbar, if you get a chance, can you review Cargo Symbols. I put this together based on brief testing, not long game play. I bet I missed things, especially for Marked cargo.

At the bottom of the Autopaver page, I took out my little Note section and made a new Calculating Your Contributions.

  • Are you British? You didn't have an accent, but you use British spelling in three places on that page:
    • Behaviour not Behavior
    • Maximise not maximize
    • Minimise not minimize

I made a new Miscellaneous page with a HUGE shoutout to your DS site! I will try to mention your site elsewhere, as I can. I really like your Ds Resources page ... maybe I'll make something like that.

I wouldn't mind shooting the breeze sometime if you want. In theory I'm working toward rewriting a lot of stuff, but I keep finding other places that could be fleshed out or improved more, laugh. After you've spent half a year on something, with many realizations along the way, there's a lot of old stuff here. Even in my own eyes.

From Mike 2021-12-17

Hi, saw your Autopaver stuff - it's great to have this better insight. I only played two games by my lonesome, with only a little help from reddit or googling ... and then started testing (and not playing through any more, per se). So I'm sure I've missed a bunch of "overview" things that you probably know a lot better. Like, others contributing to Autopavers.

Recently I've done the following:

  • Added encryption (great idea, thanks!)
  • Met with a wiki pro and he helped me install a mobile skin. Now it should auto-sense what you're using, and there's a "mobile" and "desktop" toggle at the bottom of each page. FWIW I'm now using the Vector skin for desktop and Timeless for mobile.
  • I finished the Mule page and I guess I'm finished with Tips. Unless I think of others.
  • I tested Floating Carrier (I never used them back in the day) and made entries on their effect on Sam's speed and how much CXls they use.

I am trying to stop testing and finish the site (laugh). Right now I am struggling with how to remove all the old Bonus Max Capacity verbiage and replace it with simpler Bonus Chiral Capacity verbiage. Eventually though it's really true, some of my pages really ramble all over. I need to revise, reduce, rearrange, and/or make-collapsible for some of it.

Thanks for all your help!

From Crowbar 2021-12-16

Made some edits to the autopaver page. Seems there might be a missing closing tag on the table making the rest of the text on the page small.

From Mike 2021-12-14 19:15

Hi, I edited BB Likes a little. You worked on it too. I noticed that apostrophes were replaced with another character. For example, I write "Director's Cut" but you write "Directorís Cut".

Does the former not show up as an apostrophe for you, but the latter does?

Crowbar here -- it must have been an artifact when copy and pasting from the files you sent me! I hadn't proofread at the time.

From Mike 2021-12-09 12:30

Alert, I am getting "Error contacting the Parsoid/RESTBase server (HTTP 400)" if I try to save when using Edit (the visual editor). Can't figure out why; I've never seen this before. But the old Edit Source editor works fine. For now, please don't make long edits with the visual editor without testing that it can save even a tiny edit first. Or just use the Source Editor.

For now, I turned off the new MobileFrontend to see if it will help. It's the only thing that's changed in the past few days.

From Mike 2021-12-09 12:30

Okay I installed a mobile frontend extension. Seems to work better on my phone now. Also you may have noticed I got httpS enforced. Both great ideas by you. I'm plugging along on Mule page and some day real soon will confront the fact I need to majorly re-organize plus condense wherever I can. Maybe put a number of the less relevant and marginal sections onto their own pages or whatever.

BTW if you want to you're welcome to make pages that are entirely your own. Either ones that fit with my overall scheme and are just pages for more in the DS Data vein, or entirely separate pages that are really mainly for and by you. And of course you can say that on those pages. Another alternative I did is to put long-ass entries on my User page at e.g. Fallout 3 and This War of Mine. Then they were "mine" and not part of the general wiki that of course anybody else can come edit (and potentially mess up, laugh... we all know how that goes). Anyway it's up to you. I trust ya.

If you do make any new pages, please follow the convention I have that all my DS pages start with "Game-Death-Stranding" then use more dashes for punctuation, as you see in my wiki URLs. (The simplified is a redirect. I can make others.) At the top of all(?) my DS pages I change the Title that's displayed with DISPLAYTITLE so it's more friendly (just look at the code for any of them). I use this URL convention to keep my pages and topics straight; there's a lot of other pages on my site. That almost nobody visits, laugh.

Mike 2021-12-06 noon

Hi, for the backup and restore, I copied down the four pages you worked on. Plus made a PDF overview of your changes as a reminder. Find them all in this zip (can you use a zip ok?).

You can just replace the entire contents of those pages, and your new edits will show up as all done by you. It will wipe today's little note on the Comms page but that's okay if you got the zip.

Mike 2021-12-04 Sat. 10 a.m.

First draft of spreadsheet uploaded yesterday. (Do you have Excel?) I still need to review the site to make sure it's properly mentioned wherever I previously called it out, or need to call it out now.

Your cc in the /sr Max Amount of Chiral Crystals was a real eye-opener to me.

  • Makes perfect sense in hindsight. I vaguely recall reading about CXls versus weight way back when, but forgot about it. And thus missed its important implications.
  • This is actually exactly what I was asking in this old post, Does Sam have anything that increases his stats besides the Bridges Star point scores? However at that point I was doing boot testing where I was only looking at the Baseline, and I didn't even realize it was simply straight-up reducing Load.
  • So I thought it was some sort of stealth effect that people maybe had no idea about. But now it's plain to see that it's just based on your CXls, simple as that.
  • It means I will have to do a major rewrite. Maybe even remove the term Bonus Max Capacity and re-write everywhere that talks about it as a mysterious effect.
    • Sam's Levels versus the Stairstep Baseline will probably simply have to be deleted... this is where I tried to piece together when it started kicking in.
    • I was really baffled that "my Baseline" went down at one point. But now it's obvious that it was just my CXl level bouncing around.
  • As soon as you cc'd me on "Max Amount of Chiral Crystals" everything clicked into place. What actually happened to my Sam is that, once I finished the major roadbuilding, my CXls levels started steadily increasing. That's all... it's as simple as that.

JHC. Now I'm going to have to rewrite so much, lol. But still: THANKS for helping me see things like this! I've said it before... I'm just one guy in a corner testing things. I can get Rain Man, and I can miss obvious things that others take for granted.

I looked through Tips, Mail, and Interviews but couldn't find any mention of CXls reducing weight. Can you remember when we got that? Maybe it was just an audio message from somebody. Probably around the time you first get to use Chiralium, very early in the game.

Would we want to set up a way for you to comm with me better the reddit messages? Those get kind of hard to go through once there's a lot of them. Would you want to be an editor on this wiki? Maybe we might have a Discord session soon.

Mike 2021-12-03 Friday 8 a.m.

Right now I'm working on the spreadsheet. This is leading me to make lots of little edits across the site. Like when I incorporate the Autopaver worksheet, I notice things on my Autopaver page that need updating.

Mules and Tips page not yet finished.

You can hit the History tab at the top of any page to see recent changes for that page. Or you can see it across the entire site by looking at my Contributions.

Want to have a Discord call sometime? (Googling says it can screen share, which is good. I haven't tried that in Discord before. I could show you other things when we talk, if needed.)

Additional Suggestions

From suggestions made by you (MisterCrowbar). I hope to get to many of them; we'll see. But at the very least I have to keep track of them to have a chance of addressing them. There's so much stuff on my site I have trouble keeping it straight even without ideas from others. :P

  • Use the History tab at the top of any page to see recent changes for that page.
  • See it across the entire site by looking at my Contributions.
  • On the Contributions page, hit a "hist" to see Before (prev) and After (cur) across a time period.
    I do lots of micro edits; this is an easier way to see a lot of changes at once.

Done, kind of:   let me know if I missed any, or interpreted something wrong

  • About Sam’s default speed (in boot durability), you may want to mention jogging is the default speed with KB+M and the maximum non-sprinting speed with controller. With an analog stick, Sam’s speed varies based on how far you push the stick, the lowest speed being something of a power walk.
I put this in two places, using your exact words. Does it look okay?
  • The boots page and the trudge point discussion also get wordy and would be good candidates for pruning/editting if you go there.
I did some pruning and stuck quite a bit into collapsibles.
  • Also in boots page for roads - “big shark buildings” are the distribution centres, even in Knots. I would also be more concise. Sort what is/isn’t roads into those categories, instead of putting a bunch of exceptions in each.
I put most of Boots / Roads into a collapsible, but I kept the circuitous wording. Ultimately my sampling is pretty spotty (which means I can't make sweeping statements), plus who really cares at this level of detail, so I just said what I did and didn't test. Also saying "shark" building is simply the quickest way to nail down exactly what I mean out of all the buildings at many big knots, without using a lot more words. I know it sounds a little dumb but I don't care; it's short and to the point. :-)
  • I feel like “how to tell if sam is sprinting” is unnecessary? He’s got different movement animations and one can just tap the sprint button to see how it changes.
I collapsed this, but it is necessary when you're running against a wall. It's not as clear what Sam is or isn't doing and also his animations are affected by where the POV camera is, which can happen a lot in Prepper shelters, but can still happen in big knot lobbies. IOW he sometimes does closer to Jogging animations when he's actually Sprinting against a wall. So I'm keeping it in case it helps anyone.
  • Maybe move testing methods to their own pages to keep page length shorter and make data easier to find for people who just want to learn about DS vs people wanting to know the methods.
I just tried to collapse a lot of them. Many of those are highly specific to boot testing. It also helps show interested people everything you have to go through if you want to get those kinds of numbers, and by extension, what the caveats are with my boot data. So I think it's best there. So I just collapsed a lot of it. But you're right, it is god-awful long. (A LOT of my site is, laugh.)
  • In Snow, Sprinting in the ATS significantly helps stamina and fatigue
(Inserted a new bullet to that effect.)